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Elizabeth Karmel, the executive chef of Manhattan's Hill Country, is America's female grilling expert. She has traveled the country to feed her passion for barbecue, and she wants to encourage all of you ladies (and gentlemen) to get in on the grilling fun. Her new cookbook, Soaked, Slathered, and Seasoned has been named one of NPR's "10 Best Summer Cookbooks of 2009." Learning How to Cook had a chance to chat with America's favorite "girl at the grill." Here's what she had to say. |
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LHTC: Congratulations on the upcoming second anniversary of Hill Country NY. Tell me how this restaurant came about.
EK: I teach an authentic Southern barbecue class in New York City. The owner of the restaurant (who's family is from Lockhart, Texas) tried to get into that class and it was booked. So he contacted me outside of the school. We had similar interests. He really wanted to celebrate the authentic barbecue of the Texas Hill Country, and, of course, I had been there many, many times. I'm a North Carolinian and one of the reasons I wanted to work on the project is because he wanted to keep it authentic to Hill Country. So we don't have pulled pork, even though that is one of my specialties. We don't have that at the restaurant, and that might sound strange, but that really sealed the deal for me. I thought, if this guy really wants to create an authentic experience in New York City... I mean, we are not saying we are Texas, because we're not, we're New York City. We've got sauce on the table because New Yorkers expect to have sauce. You go to the Hill Country in Central Texas, there is no sauce. Well now, there is more and more sauce because it's becoming popular and a destination, and people come from all over. If you go to Kreuz Market, they don't have sauce. When we were creating the sauce the sauce for the restaurant, that was one of the hardest things to do. We couldn't just look and see what was the traditional, we had to create something all on our own.
The owner grew up in Washington D.C. but always went home to visit his grandparents in Lockhart, Texas, and his dad had grown up there. He had a real emotional connection to Lockhart, and I have a real emotional connection to authentic barbecue and have always loved Texas as well. And that is sort of how we came to do the restaurant.
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LHTC: How did you initially get involved in learning how to cook?
EK: This is an old Southern story, as cliched as they come, I learned to cook with my mother and my grandmother when I was a child. My mother is a fabulous cook. I grew up in a scratch-cook household. There were no mixes. There were no prepared foods. It wasn't like that was special, that's just the way it was. Today, it sounds very special.
My grandmother, during peach season, would sit there, days on end, with a paring knife laboriously peeling peaches to put up for the winter. So all winter long we had these unbelievable peaches because she would freeze them. When they thawed out, it was just like having a fresh peach in the summer time. The interesting thing is that my mother grew up with that good Southern food, and then when Julia Child was on television, she learned to cook by subscribing to the PBS series, the French Chef. So literally, she had a little black and white television in the kitchen, and she would follow along with Julia Child and make the recipes. She still has her notebook. Back then, they didn't have cookbooks, but you could get the recipes from the season. They would mail it to you, and she put it in a notebook and they would have the date that Julia Child cooked this on air. So I grew up with this, sort of, French Chef cooking Southern scratch-cooking. That was sort of my world. So I started cooking with my mother when I was probably 4 or 5 years old.
LHTC: At what point did you get into grilling?
EK: I got into grilling when I moved away from North Carolina. First of all, when you get out of college, the only thing that my friends and I could afford to do, in terms of having dinner parties together, would be a cookout where everyone brought their own meat and a side dish. That was very popular in North Carolina. I had experienced the way that every college student experiences grilling. You know, you put way to much charcoal in a grill you buy in a grocery store for probably $15 for (without a lid). Then, I got older. I moved away from North Carolina, and I realized that if I was going to have North Carolina-style pulled pork more than once a year when I went home to visit, I'd have to learn how to make it myself. That's basically what I did. With trial and error, I figured it out, and it's almost the exact same recipe that I make today.
I was teaching myself how to grill around the same time Weber became my client.
LHTC: What has been the most challenging part of becoming "America's Female Grilling Expert" in a male dominated culinary culture?
EK: Actually, it has been way easier for me as a female, to be a girl in a man's world. It was much easier than if I was one of the guys. In everything in life, I am insatiably curious. Because I'm curious, it propels me to go ask people, "How did you do that?" Because I'm a girl, they all told me the answers. They never would have told somebody that they perceived to be a competitor their secret.
LHTC: You play so many roles in the culinary world - to name a few, executive chef (Hill Country, NYC), a writer (both cookbooks and for magazines), a teacher & expert on Southern food (The Institute of Culinary Education), and a designer (Grill Friends, silicone kitchen and grilling tools). Is one part your favorite, or do you enjoy each equally?
EK: I enjoy them ALL equally. I mentioned that I am insatiably curious, and that curiosity is what really drives everything. The curiosity in searching for the "Holy Grail" no matter what that is. For example, my whole line of products came out of challenges and problems that home cooks have in the kitchen and around the grill. People would say to me, "Can't you figure out a better way to do X?" or "I have a problem with this..." Almost every single one of my products came from those. In fact, one of my dearest friends in North Carolina, huge griller, still a charcoal griller, big guy, he's about 6'5, and he loves beer can chicken. He was so afraid to put the beer and the chicken together. So I created my chicken sitter really for him, because it's a beer can with a skirt on it so the chicken won't topple over. It washes up beautifully in the dishwasher since it's porcelain and not made out of metal. Almost everything that I have created, I have created to solve a problem that people have. That's the Holy Grail.
In terms of food, a lot of my recipes come from tasting something somewhere and wanting to recreate it at home. The writing comes out of that. And also teaching...I had to teach myself. When Weber was my client, I had to teach myself the best way to get great food out of the grill. (Because I wasn't a man, I'm a woman) I did that based on logic. For example, my mantra is, "oil the food, not the grates." Almost every grilling book and lots of magazines tell you to oil the cooking grates. Well what happens when you do that, number one, you have preheated the grill so the oil instantly smokes and burns. When oil smokes and burns, it becomes sticky, besides the fact they will ignite into flames very quickly. It's a fire hazard too. So now they have oiled it, and now the grates are really, really sticky. Then they put the food on it, and the food doesn't have any oil on it, so you are basically gluing the food to the cooking grates. I figured out, if I oiled my food, that would keep all of the juices inside my food. Because if you don't oil your food, as it cooks, all the juices that are naturally in the food, slowly dehydrate and evaporate, just like a food dehydrator, so your food becomes dry. But if you put oil on it, the juices can't penetrate the oil. It promotes caramelization, it stops food from sticking, and it keeps it really, really juicy. Well, those are the only three things that people really care about. Because I figured that out through trial and error, I'm going against the grain getting people to oil the food, not the grates, because it really works. When I have taught this in class, I am not kidding, I have literally had students cry in class because they have bought other books that tell them to do the opposite. They have tried everything and ruined everything that they have made, and so they think that something is wrong with them, and nothing is wrong with them. I have this trademark technique called the grilling trilogy. If you know the difference between direct and indirect heat and how to use it, all you need to make great tasting food is olive oil, salt and pepper. The olive oil is to coat the food before you put it on. Guys will find that out or I will tell them at a party, and they will call me up and say, "You have just changed my whole grilling life with those three little things."
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It seems like I have a lot of roles, but they are all really interconnected. They make a nice 360 degree circle. The restaurant in so fabulous because it is an opportunity for me to share the foods that I grew up with as well as the foods that I have learned about like the Texas barbecue part. When I was creating all of the sides and all of the desserts, I wanted them to be classic flavors and I wanted them to taste like someone was giving you a hug every time you put it in your mouth. Because you are not going to eat at Hill Country every single day. To me, it was what I could do in New York City for other people, the same way when I go home and eat at the some of the Southern diners or Southern restaurants. I can't wait to eat those green beans that have been cooked for hours. All of the food, like grits, that I don't get to eat on a daily basis unless I make them myself.
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For more on Elizabeth's Grilling Trilogy and grilling safety , please go to our "grilling tips" guide, learninghowtocook.com/cooking-guides/.
LHTC: Other than Hill Country, where is your favorite place to eat barbecue?
EK: Well, I have two.
The funny thing about barbecue is that it is so regional, and it is so indigenous to where you grew up. When I first moved to Chicago, and people were like, "hey, let's go get barbecue," my eyes got big and wide. I couldn't wait to hunker down with a sandwich of pulled pork with a vinegar sauce on top with a really, mushy white hamburger bun, nothing fancy, no sesame seeds. That's what the North Carolina-style pulled pork sandwich is. And then we would go to these restaurants in Chicago, and it would be ribs. The way they make them in a restaurant in Chicago is different from true barbecue, because they basically steam them in the oven and slather them with sweet sauce. I was so disappointed. My whole face fell because, I thought. "That's not barbecue. I don't even know what these rib things are." Then the first time I ever went to "Memphis in May," which is the world's largest barbecue contest, and it's all about ribs there. I was AMAZED, and I was like, "Oh, my god, this is a rib!" It was smoked low and slow with wonderful wood. Then the first time I went to Texas, not only was it beef, but it was sausage. Wow! That's the craziest thing.
Besides Hill Country, I would have to say Kreuz Market because they are our patron saint. Then Lexington #1, Wayne Monk, in North Carolina is probably my favorite North Carolina barbecue besides an Eastern North Carolina guy named Ed Mitchell. And then, my favorite ribs in the whole wide world are from my barbecue buddy, Mike Mills, and his original restaurant, he's got 7 now, but his original restaurant is in Murphysboro, Illinois and it's called 17th Street.
LHTC: What do you like to eat when you are not eating grilled food?
EK: I love food from all over the world. I'm a big sushi lover. I love everything. I can't think of a food I don't like. I really love sushi, though. It's a very clean food. You always feel energetic afterward. I'm a big wine hobbyist, so I love anything I can drink rich, full-flavored red wine with. And Champagne, I drink Champagne with everything.
LHTC: What is your favorite thing about being an executive chef in Manhattan?
EK: Making people happy when they come to eat there.
LHTC: The tag for Girls at the Grill is "If You Can Eat It, You Can Grill It." What is the strangest thing you have grilled?
EK: I'm going to list a bunch of things. That tag line came to me very organically, because I would look at something and I would say, "Hmm. I wonder what would happen if I grill it?" In fact, now grilling bananas is common place. I'm bananas about grilling bananas! I have taught so many people to do, and lots of people do it now. I was the first person to grill bananas. Grilling bananas is like having bananas foster without the mess of the saute pan without the pound of butter. It is divine.
I love grilling Brussels sprouts. Anything that you can imagine. You can't grill pancakes.
LHTC: Have you tried?
EK: I have actually grilled them on a griddle on the grill.
You name it, and I have grilled it. To me, it's no longer strange, the bananas, the Brussels sprouts. I grill bacon all the time, because then I don't have to wash the pan. I was really into doing this grilled frittata. So I grilled all of the vegetables. I would mix it with spinach and eggs and bacon on the grill. Because using indirect heat, you can really use your grill just like you use an outdoor oven.
LHTC: Can you give us any quick tips to make an average steak or burger less average?
EK: Oh gosh, YES! Let's do the steak first. Let's talk about a classic strip steak. Number one, buy a really thick, 1 half-inch steak. You can share it with three people, but I guarantee the thicker it is, the better you are going to get a nice char, a nice caramelization, on the outside, and it will still be medium-rare on the inside. If you buy too thin of a steak, then it's almost impossible to cook it to medium-rare. Just by searing it on both sides, you are going to cook it to at least medium. Number two, you want to wrap any steak that you have in a paper towel before you cook it to absorb all the excess moisture from the steak. And what that does is it gives you a perfect canvas for grill marks. Because you can't get any grill marks or caramelization on your food unless that food is dry. Wrap that steak in a paper towel, dry it, brush it with olive oil, season it with salt and pepper, kosher salt and freshly ground pepper. Sear it over high heat for a minute or so on each side, and let it finish cooking over indirect heat, a more gentle heat. That is the way that chefs cook steaks, and you will have a perfect steak if you do that. And the very last thing that you have to do is you must let the food rest before you cut it. So when you take it off the grill, don't cut into it immediately, let it rest 5 or 6 minutes, depending on the size. What that does, it will allow it to reabsorb the juices. That's very important.
I will tell you a great steak story. One of my best friends and I were doing a dinner in Los Angeles, a steak dinner. We had got these big, huge tenderloins from Lobel's Meat Market in New York City. Each one of them cost about $500. It was very expensive Prime meat, the whole thing. I went to the grill. And usually, I have a sixth sense. I can put something on the grill and not think about it, and then right when it's perfectly cooked, I'll say, "I better go get that." But this time, because that meat was so expensive, I stayed at the grill and I cooked it, seared it, and finished it over indirect heat. And I knew, it was cooked just perfect. I brought it inside and let it rest 5 or 10 minutes. The larger the piece of meat , the longer you need to let it rest. I knew that. I start slicing it to plate up the food and it's just pale pink on the inside. I was so upset. I was like, "I can't believe I overcooked this meat!" So anyway, we put all of the plates together, went down and served them, and came back about half an hour later, and the meat was fuschia. The moral of the story is that I didn't let it rest long enough.
People are always saying to me, "But it's not going to be hot." You know what, it won't be hot. But if you take a hot steak, by the time you cut it, it's not hot either. I think it's much better to have really juicy, really flavorful, really tender steak than a hot steak.
LHTC: What about burgers?
EK: Number one, don't overwork the meat. My favorite burger mix is half chuck, half sirloin. So you get the flavor and the fat from the chuck and you get the leanness from the sirloin, so it's a perfect mix. It's not too lean, it's not too fatty, it's just right. I put a few seasonings in the meat. You do not want to overwork the meat at all, because that will make the meat tough. You barely want to combine it. Pick it up and put it into a patty. Before you put it on the grill, you want to take your thumb and put your thumb in the center of the patty.
When it cooks, the meat expands to fill that hole. If you don't have that hole, as the meat fibers expand as they cook, it will actually turn into more of a meatball. That's why so many homemade burgers are round instead of flat.
My burger press that I made for Grill Friends actually has my thumb print on top. The inside is coated with silicone. Almost every burger press out there is made out of metal, which reacts with the meat. I just can't understand why they make them out of metal because it can make your food taste tinny. I coated mine with silicone so it can go in the dishwasher. Everything comes off so you can put it in the dishwasher so it can be perfectly cleaned and sterilized.
Here is the other thing about burgers. Turn them once halfway through cooking time. Cook them on a medium, direct heat. And only turn them once. A lot of people want to flip, and flip, and flip. That just makes them tough. Never ever press down with a spatula, because then all of the juices are gone.
LHTC: I have been seeing a lot about grilled pizzas. What cheese and toppings compliment the grilled flavors best?
EK: There are over 52 recipes in [my Pizza on the Grill book] with all different cheese and toppings. I can't really sum up that answer.
Let's talk a little bit about grilled pizza. A lot of people are afraid of it. They think it's going to stick to the grate and fall through the grate. If you oil the dough, and then roll the dough... I like to use grits because it gives it a rustic texture. If you preheat the grill, put the dough on quickly and put the lid down. The heat in the grill will instantly make the yeast rise and it will become completely rigid, so it won't fall through the grates. The best thing about grilled pizza is that you grill both sides of the crust. So you are putting your toppings on the side that you grilled first so that it's crunchy and it's crispy, and it has that great rustic texture from the grits. It has that slightly smoky flavor. You never will go back.
The difference between pizzeria pizza and grilled pizza is pizzeria pizza takes raw dough and they put the toppings on the raw dough, so it never gets crispy. It's always sort of soggy underneath the toppings. That's what makes grilled pizza so much better. And because you have this really nice rustic, strong textured canvas, you can put literally any kind of cheese and toppings that you want, whatever is your favorite. You can do the classic pepperoni, you can to the bacon cheeseburger. There is a recipe in my book that it so ethereal. It's made with corn, crème fraiche and lobster, and it is just out of this world.
LHTC: What is your favorite tool?
EK: The one tool I could not live without, as far as grilling is concerned, my brass-bristled cleaning brush and my stop-and-go tongs. I can do everything with my tongs.
LHTC: What item would we be most surprised to find in your kitchen?
EK: Well, I think you would be most surprised to see, in my very small galley kitchen is that I probably have the same quantity of things as a gourmet retail store.
Somebody just asked me what's my dirty little food secret? I sort of had to say, well, I don't have any dirty little food secret whether it's Uptown or Down Low. She said, well, give me an example. And I said, every time I go home, my first stop is at Chick-Fil-A, because there's no Chick-Fil-A here.
I'll tell you what I have here that you would be surprised I have, onion goggles! You know how I found out about onion goggles? Mary Moore [Cook's Warehouse, Atlanta, Georgia]. I got a pair of them. I was doing this recipe that had a case of onions that I had to cut, and I used them and they were great.
LHTC: Besides the three new cookbooks we should keep an eye out for in the near future, do you have anything else in the works?
EK: I always have new products, new tools in the works. I'm working on a new book. I have lots of things in the work.
LHTC: And finding time to Tweet...
EK: Yes! I love Twitter! Come follow me on Twitter. (twitter.com/grillgirl)
I just did a series of grilling tips spots for the Fine Living Channel, and they're coming out this summer, which will be fun.
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